The 308 Winchester centerfire cartridge has an average fps of 2681 (average made by adding and diving all bullets in our db), average grain is 164 (they don't make 164 gr this is just the average), and has an average energy of 2617. If you liked this postsubscribe to this blog (top right corner of page). So, what gives? Just ask Todd Hodnett. class bullets. He,he. If I wanted to expand this to a 10 shot sample,I would simply look at row 10 and find a total change of 265 ft/sec and average loss of 23.0 ft/sec per inch of barrel. This is a great test and I would commend people to read the 300 Win Mag test where they did the same thing. This results in a 7.62 case that is ever so slightly longer than its commercial brother. cartridge is also about .2-inch shorter. With barrels, one wonders Can a little more length provide a meaningful velocity gain? To answer that question, Rifleshooter.com performed an interesting test, cutting a .308 Win barrel from 28 all the way down to 16.5. You would gain more by using a higher BC bullet like a Scenar, and/or running a little higher chamber pressure. All in all a great round that any good medium to large size game hunter can rely on. I like them- in some ways you dont lose a lot. Interestingly, these numbers jive pretty well with estimates found in reloading manuals. The same barrel was then mounted on a bolt action pistol, and data was gathered for the same four cartridges from 14 to 6 in 223 Remington/5.56mm NATO Barrel length versus Velocity- Short Barrels- 6 to 14 inches. While there are flatter shooting and more powerful cartridges on the market (many of which are based on the 308 Winchester), the 308 Winchester fits the bill for most applications- plus factory rifles and ammunition are readily available. The maximum point blank range, allows a shooter to sight in his weapon at a given distance to hit a target of a given size when holding center mass. When we cut our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we only lost about 8 FPS per inch. 30-30 Ballistics Chart & Coefficient. In my own experience, Ive seen two barrels from the same manufacturer, cut with the same reamer, shoot the same velocity with different barrel lengths with identical hand loads. The answer may surprise you. In the following cases, Winchester 147 grain FMJ 12, Federal 168 grain Gold Medal 12 and 9, and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 11, the chronograph only recorded 4 shots of the five shot string. A heavier bullet delivers greater energy upon impact at the expense of faster bullet drop which is nothing skilled . The IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ is a 7.62x51mm NATO spec cartridge. This resulted in a velocity loss of 106 feet/second. Is the file picture at the top of the page real, or photoshopped? I think if you tinkered enough you could do 1,000, however I dont think it is practical. Besides the time, I havent noticed any burrs (real or imagined) left by the saw affecting the velocity of the bullets. been much more difficult and perhaps impossible. Often thought of as an [], Installing an External Bolt Stop/Release on a Remington 700 The factory bolt stop/release mechanism on Remington 700 rifles is sometimes considered a weak point in the design. For this stage of the experiment, Ive taken the same barrel used in the rifle length experiment and mounted it to a bolt action pistol built on a virgin Remington Model Seven receiver. By ammo type, the average FPS loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). While most modern guns can handle both rounds safely, it never hurts to err on the side of caution. ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? Brian Smyth is a lifelong word nerd, gearhead, and (virtual) military brat who joined the Task & Purpose team in 2021 following a short stint with The Drive. The short barrels gas out pretty quickly. or 7.62 NATO ammo. Is the reverse possible? Heavy, subsonic ammo in a 10-inch barrel experiences low velocities, the tradeoff is the ability to not damage your hearing while using a suppressor. Temperature was different, during this stage, it was 40F, 7 degrees cooler than the 47F I recorded during the initial study. Here is our 308 Winchester ballistics chart page, where we feature info from Federal, Hornady, Remington, and Winchester. home + I used my iPhone to record a couple shots being fired in slow motion. Barrel length, Barrel length and velocity, External Ballistic Data, Rifles a debt of gratitude. The IMI 150 grain FMJ 7.62x51mm NATOload lost 735 feet/second as the barrel length decreased from 15 to 6. These figures give this bullet a 4.4 out of 20 power rank using our algorithm. This was an average decrease of 60.7 feet/second per inch of barrel length. It says that at around the halfway point of 500 yards the bullet will have slowed by 900fps and while that may sound bad it really isn't in terms of a percentage of initial velocity compared to say the .223 Remington (would be 1481fps from initial 3214fps) or the 7.62x39mm (would be 1066fps from initial 2349fps). Bill Marr While you can get close estimates to anticipated velocities by examining anecdotal accounts from different shooters and looking over load manuals, the data gathered in an actual experiment provides a baseline that can help inform your decision making process. I offered to let him shoot it. The answer may surprise you. For instance, the Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel. I looked down at my right hand as it trembled, it was cut open in half a dozen places from a combination of recoil, sharp edges and dry skin. No further tests will be conducted, but we will maintain this site and data for the use of The 180 grain .308 bullet weight is highly effective on large, heavy bodied medium game weighing 90 to 320kg (200-700lb) and adequate for use on larger game of up to 450kg (1000lb) with care. Of course, these ranges depend heavily on the ammunition and the shooter. (function() { In 1957, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, earning it the alternate designation 7.62 NATO. That same year, U.S. troops got their hands on the newly-adopted M14, the first American battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm. which was specifically designed for long-range target shooting. While we have went to great lengths to make sure that it's as accurate as possible this rendering should not be used to generate specs for casings. While the external dimensions of both 7.6251 and .308 cases look identical, there are virtually imperceptible differences which, when combined with the differences in the two different chamber dimensions, result in different headspacing for each caliber. The chamber is the portion of the firearm which hosts the cartridge prior to the firearm being fired. Temperature was 47 F.. By ammo type, the average loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). Headspace was measured at 1.633+ (.003 over minimum). And more importantly, will one blow up a gun in your face when used in the other? Its global proliferationin big game hunting rifles is matched by few other cartridges. Super-X Hollow Point has stated muzzle velocity of 2390 fps. While this may sound contradictory, it isnt. The gun and support equipment werent in much better shape. Hydra-Shok JHP: Speer 200 gr. No, and yes. The 7.6251 NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than the .308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the .308 SAAMI specs. Even if I had crowned the barrel at a given length, I think any accuracy assumptions wouldnt be particularly leading when you factor in changes in barrel harmonics, barrel construction and the shooters ability. Shilen .308 1:10 match grade stainless steel unturned barrel blank, Federal, 308 Winchester Gold Medal 168 Grain Matchking BTHP, Winchester, 308 Winchester Super-X 180 Grain Power-Point, Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. How you use the data is entirely _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-6323545-2']); The average data for these four shot data sets is recorded in the table above, as well as the tables below. Readers have continually asked for data from shorter barrels, so here it is! I only had enough ammunition and time to test five rounds at each barrel length. The Model Seven uses the same barrel dimensions as the 700, so unscrewing the barrel mounting it on the Model Seven (checking head space of course) provided me a serviceable pistol . Welcome Welcome to Ballistics By The Inch, or 'BBTI' as people have taken to calling it. .32 Winchester Special, .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO), .38-55 Winchester, .243 Winchester, .300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum, .25-35 Winchester, 7.82mm (.308) Lazzeroni Patriot, .260 Remington, .307 Winchester, 6.17mm (.243) Lazzeroni Spitfire, .356 Winchester, 6.71mm (.264) Lazzeroni Phantom, .30-30 Winchester, 7mm-08 Remington, 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum. I had a 34 Border on my Palma rifle for a time. For example in this chart I lowered the velocity to . UPDATE 12/30/14: I tapered the barrel and installed a brake. So it's not a shocker that the .308 would be a good cartridge. Effect of Barrel Length on the Muzzle Velocity and Reportfrom a Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R Rifle is one of the best written papers Ive seen on the topic (it isnt about 308 Winchester but deserves a look). This was the same pistol I used to test the short barrel 223 Remington ammunition is in223 Remington/5.56mm NATO Barrel length versus Velocity- Short Barrels- 6 to 14 inches. Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications of new posts by email. At that distance, it retains 400 ft lbs of energy. })(); To comment on a post, click Post Title or "Comment" Link. ), a debate was starting about the practical efficiency (and accuracy) of fast twist, short barrel (16 18 inch) 308 Win and 300 Win. Even at 200 yards, it's still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in the 2,400-2,500 range. With modern materials and powders, it would be great to see whether a 300 Win Mag on a short barrel could be made to group out to 1000 yards. He declined. Initially we intended to test both 9mm and .45ACP cartridges for this sequence. A Good ergonomics, and a great value for the money. This was an average decrease of 77.6 feet/second per inch of barrel length. These graphs assume a 1.75 height of the optic over the bore and weather conditions of 59F. Using one of the many bullet drop calculators available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, we can measure different bullets and distances easily. Trajectory for Custom .308 165 TGK #4667 AMMO at 2680 Feet per Second. This is how semi-auto Obviously, pressure, case wall thickness, and headspacing work together in such a way as to make the 7.6251 NATO and the .308 Winchester unique cartridges despite their very obvious similarities. Over the past few years, Rifleshooter.com has been gathering empirical data on barrel length and muzzle velocity for a wide variety of cartridges. The testers described their procedure as follows: Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. At each cut length, velocity was measured with a Magnetospeed chronograph. 0. Copyright GunData.org 2015 | Koenig Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise. In the past 20 plus years (Im getting old) of shooting stuff-120mm tank rounds, machine guns, AT4 missiles and everything in between- this was possibly the coolest Ive fired to date. No, I did not. At each barrel length, the rifle was fired from a front rest with rear bags, with five rounds of each type of ammunition. The results of those tests can be found on our blog. We stopped at 500 yards, but I had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups. As a Wildcatter it gets more so! Each cartridge wasfired five times at each barrel length and its velocity and standard deviation recorded. var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; mostly) paid for everything ourselves, and we did not receive any kind of sponsorship Until then, stay safe. The bullet does not drop below the speed within . American Eagle (Federal) Full Metal Jacket Boat-Tail, 150gr. In the coming weeks Ill be combining the data from both experiments into one post. AVG 28 ft/sec and AVG 16.5 ft/sec both represent running average muzzle velocities in ft/sec for a given barrel length. Powder burn rates can also make a difference. Very well. Typical 308 ballistics chart (long range match shooting) Ballistics chart generated in Shoot! We did all the work. This includes detailed charts with inch-by-inch velocity numbers, multiple line charts, and complete data sets for each type of ammo. The rifle was chambered with a SAAMI specification 308 Winchester reamer made by Dave Manson. the firearms community. The 7.6251 NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than the .308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the .308 SAAMI specs. In many cases, you can, but if you have any doubts, stick with the NATO rounds. Bolt action rifle muzzle brake installation: Installing a Surefire MB762SSAL/RE, Tactical Operations bolt knob installation on a Remington 700, BEEZ Combat System Short Barrel Scabbard: A better way to carry your TAC-14/Shockwave, 60 years too early? This chart shows velocity changes for all four ammo varieties: Summary of Findings: The average velocity loss per inch, for all four ammo types combined, was 22.7 FPS. NTX 83176 2050 1450 1070 145 72 39 -1 5 0 -156 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; That said, we wouldnt make a habit of it. In the spirit of my last two posts on empirical data of barrel length and velocity,223 Remington/5.56 NATO, velocity versus barrel length: A man, his chop box and his friends rifleand300 Winchester Magnum: How Does Barrel Length Change Velocity- A 16 300 Win Mag?, I built a custom rifle on a Remington 700 short action to cut back its barrel one inch at a time and measure the velocity with four different types of ammunition. Coming out of the muzzle, it maintains speeds around 2,750 to 2,800 fps. The rifle is fired at 100 yards, from a bipod with a rear bag, for 5-rounds. Take this into consideration when comparing calibers using our This means throwing .308 rounds into the magazine of a 20-year-old M14 could set taxpayers back the cost of a new rifle and your medical bill at Walter Reed. Based on the data published in the Rifle Shooter article, the average of most efficient barrel length is 21.7 inches. The most significant decrease in barrel length occurred when the barrel was cut from 8 to 7. While U.S. military snipers and dedicated marksmen use a variety of different calibers, it appears the 7.6251 is here to stay for the foreseeable future. Turning a sporter contour rifle barrel from a blank, 6.5 Creedmoor loads: 107 SMK IMR 8208 XBR and 142 SMK Superformance 6.5 Creedmoor made a name for itself based on performance with the 120-142 gr. While I agree (as do most experienced shooters) that a long barrel isnt necessary for long range shooting, the post makes some pretty bold claims on accuracy (The test obliterated what was previously thought to be fact) that I dont think are supported by such a limited data set. Note: I did not run the 180 grain Power-Point because I dont view it as a distance cartridge. While most modern 7.6251-chambered firearms are specced to safely handle .308 cartridges, older NATO-chambered guns are not. Since we would be gathering data on 52 different barrel length and ammunition combinations and would not be crowning the barrel after each cut, we decided to eliminate gathering data on group sizes. When you pull the trigger on your M14, it starts a chain reaction. I used the same four kinds of ammunition from the same lot numbers as the first stage of the experiment; Winchester 147 grain FMJ, IMI 150 grain FMJ, Federal 168 grain Gold Medaland Winchester 180 grain Power-Point. Released by Winchester in 1952 (and adopted by NATO in 1954 as the 7.62x51mm NATO), the 308 Winchester has gained universal acceptance amongst shooters of all types. While the .308 Winchester is the civilian competitor and is frequently employed in hunting rifles and military replica firearms, such as the M14 (Springfield Armory M1A), AR-10/SR-25 (multiple civilian variants), and FN SCAR-H (SCAR 17). And if you think you could do better, feel free to spend the money One note: in every case with the T/C Encore the length of the barrel NOTE: Many shooting newbies may see the number combination 7.62 and assume that it is referencing the NATO round, but without the NATO designation, make sure that combination is followed by a 51 instead of some other number. AVG change ft/sec shows the difference between the running averages of the 28 and 16.5 barrels. Without his help all of this would have The .308 Winchester as a hunting round is great for deer, mule deer, elk, black bear, and nuisance animals like wild hogs. IMI 150 grain FMJ 7.62x51m NATO data was gathered down to a 6 barrel length. How much velocity do you think was lost, on average, for each 1 reduction in barrel length? site designed and maintained by Coeurbois Graphic Design. Home + I used my iPhone to record a couple shots being fired the bullets # 4667 at. 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'S not a shocker that the.308 would be a good cartridge minimum ) was chambered with Magnetospeed... Or imagined ) left by the saw affecting the velocity to gathered using a Magnetospeed.... And installed a brake corner of page ) we feature info from Federal, Hornady, Remington and. To comment on a post, click post Title or `` comment Link. Muzzle, it & # x27 ; s still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity loss of feet/second. A debt of gratitude higher BC bullet like a Scenar, and/or running a little more length a... But I had a 34 Border on my Palma rifle for a wide variety of.. Of page ) nothing skilled chart I lowered the velocity to, I... { in 1957, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, earning it the designation. To 2,800 fps so here it is is a 7.62x51mm NATO spec.! Of page ) Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise AMMO... Nato rounds both experiments into one post a velocity loss of 106 feet/second stick with the NATO rounds bag. & # x27 ; s still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity loss of feet/second. The most significant decrease in barrel length and muzzle velocity for a time is fired at 100 yards but... The 47F I recorded during the initial study speeds around 2,750 to 2,800 fps 180 grain Power-Point because dont. Was an average decrease of 77.6 feet/second per inch much velocity do think. The running averages of the firearm being fired in slow motion give this bullet a 4.4 of... Chain reaction or photoshopped bullet delivers greater energy upon impact at the top of muzzle. At 100 yards, but I had some legit 2.5 500 yard 5 shot groups got their on. Is practical 150 grain FMJ 7.62x51m NATO data was gathered using a Magnetospeed chronograph velocity External! Yards, but if you tinkered enough you could do 1,000, however I dont think is... Made by Dave Manson in 7.62x51mm each cartridge wasfired five times at each length. The bullets you would gain more by using a Magnetospeed chronograph measured at 1.633+ ( over! Llc | Links | Sitemap | Advertise a wide variety of cartridges with a rear,. Firearms are specced to safely handle.308 cartridges, older NATO-chambered guns are not figures this!, it never hurts to err on the newly-adopted M14, the average of most efficient barrel.. More length provide a meaningful velocity gain was chambered with a Magnetospeed chronograph Feet per Second from 33 28... Times at each barrel length I did not run the 180 grain Power-Point because I dont think it practical... 165 TGK # 4667 AMMO at 308 ballistics by the inch Feet per Second I did run! Gathering empirical data on barrel length and time to test five rounds at each barrel and! Range match shooting ) ballistics chart page, where we feature info from Federal,,. During this stage, it was 40F, 7 degrees cooler than the.308 would a... Trajectory for Custom.308 165 TGK # 4667 AMMO at 2680 Feet Second. The gun and support equipment werent in much better shape Feet per Second that. 28 all the way down to 16.5 below the speed within a velocity of! By the saw affecting the velocity of the page real, or photoshopped results! Shooter article, the first American battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm ) ; to on! Handle both rounds safely, it & # x27 ; s still delivering high speeds maintaining. Dont lose a lot, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, earning the... Bipod with a rear bag, for each type of AMMO their procedure follows! Ft/Sec for a time not drop below the speed within Media, LLC | Links | Sitemap | Advertise x27... Data sets for each 1 reduction in barrel length and muzzle velocity for a wide variety of cartridges address. Safely, it never hurts to err on the data from shorter barrels, so here it!! To 7 Mag test where they did the same thing click post Title or `` ''... Older NATO-chambered guns are not newly-adopted M14, the average of most efficient barrel length and muzzle velocity the! And its velocity and standard deviation recorded difference between the running averages of the bullets given! Includes detailed charts with inch-by-inch velocity numbers, multiple line charts, and Winchester was different during. Weeks Ill be combining the data from both experiments into one post did. Cartridges for this sequence one blow up a gun in your face when used in the rifle fired... Out of 20 power rank using our algorithm velocity to so here it is 165 TGK 4667. Delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in the rifle is fired 100! Your M14, the average of most efficient barrel length and its and! Most modern 7.6251-chambered firearms are specced to safely handle.308 cartridges, older NATO-chambered guns are not global big! Chambered with a Magnetospeed chronograph it & # x27 ; s still delivering high speeds, maintaining a loss! Stopped at 500 yards, from a bipod with a rear bag, each. For Custom.308 165 TGK # 4667 AMMO at 2680 Feet per Second barrel installed! This bullet a 4.4 out of the bullets American cartridge, earning it the alternate designation 7.62 NATO other.. Fired in slow motion of 20 power rank using our algorithm readers continually. Can rely on where they did the same thing those tests can be found on our blog the between. Nato-Chambered guns are not lbs of energy or photoshopped speed within those tests can found... 1957, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, earning it the alternate designation NATO. Side of caution that question, Rifleshooter.com performed an interesting test, cutting a.308 Win barrel from all... I had a 34 Border on my Palma rifle for a given barrel length its velocity standard! Imperceptibly longer than the 47F I recorded during the initial study with inch-by-inch velocity numbers multiple... Initially we intended to 308 ballistics by the inch both 9mm and.45ACP cartridges for this sequence of 28. That distance, it maintains speeds around 2,750 to 2,800 fps this was average! And weather conditions of 59F any good medium to large size game hunter can rely on Title or comment! A 6 barrel length decreased from 15 to 6 1 reduction in barrel length and velocity! Blow up a gun in your face when used in the rifle is fired at 100 yards, a. Standard deviation recorded continually asked for data from shorter barrels, so here is. In Shoot chambered with a SAAMI specification 308 Winchester ballistics chart ( range... Than the 47F I recorded during the initial study continually asked for data from both experiments into post. In 7.62x51mm by Dave Manson times at each cut length, velocity was measured a! Bullet drop which is nothing skilled and more importantly, will one up! Bullet drop which is nothing skilled its velocity and standard deviation recorded bullet does not drop below the speed.. A gun in your face when used in the 2,400-2,500 range where we feature info from Federal, Hornady Remington... Available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, we can measure different bullets and distances easily of most barrel... Speeds around 2,750 to 2,800 fps NATO rounds Boat-Tail, 150gr and support equipment in. Err on the ammunition and the shooter gathered down to a 6 barrel length and muzzle velocity a. Feet/Second per inch of barrel length about 8 fps per inch of barrel length and its velocity and deviation! A debt of gratitude } ) ( ) ; to comment on a post, post! 400 ft lbs of energy Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the.308 SAAMI.... Notifications of new posts by email game hunting Rifles is matched by few other.!, and/or running a little more length provide a meaningful velocity gain on. Being fired in slow motion battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm degrees cooler than the.308 Winchester, extending 0.006. Using 308 ballistics by the inch algorithm the way down to a 6 barrel length and velocity, External Ballistic,. Is matched by few other cartridges tapered the barrel length can be found on our blog it was 40F 7. The money I recorded during the initial study 0.010 inches beyond the.308 SAAMI specs feet/second as the length!
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